Pardon my ignorance from possibly missing something mentioned somewhere at sometime that i just happened to miss due to my absense that seems to continuously interrupt my posting and existance on this ver' board at times, but have there been any discussions in relation to who/what's wearing the Big Bad pants this season?
Also: when is mid season ending exactly? because i heard the 31st, yet that seems awful near for something that's currently moving so ver' slow and having to travel through the christmas rush, of which the conclusion of would pretty much be the end of the mids... apparently.... i don't know :oops: stop looking at me like i'm strange and have two heads or someth... oh wait... i do :P :P hehe
anywho-dillys, i'm hoping some form of what i was trying to say was conveyed... if not, i apologise sincerely. but if so ^_^ i give you the almighty...:
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Ok id like to say I love Daves idea, and just one little cool added thing maybe....
So instead of JUST bloody Marry, wouldnt it be cool if many kids monsters became real: Like the big bad wolf, or Rumblestilskin (however) and like all the faery tale monsters....I dont know its, late, im tired, maybe its kinda lame....it sounded cooler in my head, andnow that i type it out...well its up to you guys
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I think it sounds great, and even though we arent planning on a BB it seems like this is the kind of stoy line that might just make one for us as things unfold; just because hey we are dealing with a hellmouth right?
I was brainstoming about this the other night (because I do plan on posting sometime soon) and was thinking it might be a good idea to deal with some kind of evil/bad that isint really demonic so much. I was thinking something kind of X-men like, when the hellmouth stuff starts happening and demons become less subtle that people mabey take to the streets and try and fix their own problems and since some of the WH crew could easily be lumped in with the regular demon activity by the uninformed masses that might make somethign fun to play with.
In any regard it sounds like we have a great season coming up and im glad im going to (finally) be a part of it!
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All sounds good to me :)
Hmmm...can we pull a Darkness Falls (or whatever that movie is called) and beat up an evil tooth fairy?
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Actually read closer...that IS my idea. All of the children's fears...from evil witches and the dreaded "Undertoad" (which drgs children into the ocean) are all manifesting. It is just that Bloody Mary is more-or-less the top baddy of the crew, and the only "real" one. What makes her different is that once she is down she keps coming back becasue the fears of the children keep ressurrecting her. Sort of like Michel Meyers in the first Halloween movie.
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The upshot is that the hellmouth is the cause but one we can't really attack directly. It is the "untouchable" evil we tried to do with the Evil Entity in season 2. And at the end of the season we find ourselves in a balance with the evils of the hellmouth since closing it would take a cataclysmic event.
It might require making allies (I know...obscure but I have more of this idea that I can't say too much about right now)
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Please, I'm going to try to be clear here, even if i'm not very sure about how i feel about this. First of all i want you to know that I like all those ideas... but the more i read the more my inner radar is beeping. I mean, we will have to be working with children. I know i sound dumb, dah, we are talking about children fears, Bloody Mary hunts on children, fairy tales baddies hunt on children. Damn, that means we'll get a lot of hurt children, physically and emotionally. And i dont know if i'm too comfortable with that, although i'll try my best to follow if that is the final resolution.
Sorry, I know I started talking about this, and it seems that most of us arent worried about that issue and i know it will be a great season, but... it may be my mom syndrome, i dont know. I loved Stephen King's 'It' and it was very similar to this in many aspects, but it really affected me when i read it. I just dont know if i'll be able to write a post where a child suffers, is killed or maimed or anything like that. Well, maybe i could a post, but... a whole season of that?
I'm just asking, how far are we willing to take this?
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Horror stories involcing kids are a touchy subject. It's understandable if most can't stomach it, but I, myself, have no problem with it. I guess the people who don't really have a problem with this season's subject can take on the posts involving our villains and their helpless victims.
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Heartless bastard over here doesn't mind either. I'd be prepared to write about that sort of thing if others didn't want to (and, if I ever write of course...)
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Well, the whole season doesn't have to centre around children's fears, either. There are plenty of other manifestations of the Hellmouth that might pop up all over the place. Sure, it looks like Bloody Mary et al will be a reasonable chunk of it, but adults have fears too... Including the PCs, as Dave has just suggested to me. :wink:
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I think as with every season there are always different ways to approach the story line. I like the whole Bloody Mary idea but then I doubt my story will go down that road anyway, which is a relief because I think I've had my fill of children dying etc.
My own story will cover things from the opposite end - rather than seeing the phenomenon and not knowing what is causing it, the Ministry will know that it is the Hellmouth's impending re-opening. But they certainly won't be advertising that fact.
I think I'll be more concerned with containing the demonic element, so hopefully, I don't need to revisit too much of what made me serially depressed last season :?
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Am I the only one who is suddenly thinking of a certain 3-inch tall demon who is shown at "Actual Size" in the books showing up? Only being a bit more powerfull. Or maybe it's the fever and cold meds talking.
The thing with fears manifesting is that it can be... what? Just demons and stuff that goes bump int he night? Situatiosn like in the nightmare episode with the coach and the kid, so you get things like say Buffy becoming a vampire? Only obviously different from us, maybe Tash sleeping with a man again. ;)
Those there are some potentially really, really wicked fears that could manifest themselves, but just how *real* are they? For instance, if I fear, say, the resurrection of Shoopoo-Shoopoo the Cosmic Twinkie, is Shoopoo-Shoopoo actually going to be revived or just some sort of unconcious manifestation that couldn't have an effect on the world?
Or getting busted by the LAPD in fighitng vcrime, is it just some sort of appirition that will go bye-bye and have me awake up in my bed the next morning like a dream, or am I actually arrested?
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i actuley realy like the idea of the whole childrends fear manifesting like stupidley so
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I am really liking what is being said here. I think that the fears that children have often represent very basic, very primal things and that's what make them so much more horrific. I also think that most adults...to lead off of what Heather mentioned about the other aspect of this...have deep rooted fears that carry over from childhood. My personal fear of the ocean, that is one of those very things.
I think that this could make a very good story, and, despite being a mother myself, I am not unwilling to pursue it, even though it does make me a bit uncomfortable. What we write about shouldn't always be safe. Sometimes it should even make us squirm a bit.
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Which still makes it an interesting question - are our fears comming true in reality or in some bizzarre pseudo-reality which goes away after we get the thing balanced out?
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(pardin typing and spelling errors: drunk boy on the board tonight)
I see these fears as being soert of "pseudo threats" until they are fed the appropriate respect/fear. Children are so often scared more by the threat of fear than the fear iteself.'
"just wit till lyour father gets home"
or "If you keep doing that your eyes will stick that way"
It isn't the fear...but the threat of fear that is scary ... and it is based in ignorance.
Children don't know that there can't really be a creature under your bed; or a monster in your closet; or a horrible hag in the woods. They lack the xperience that tells them so many ties that these supposed threats don't ever materialize in reality.
Now...with a Hellmouth they can...and do ... amterialize. On demand becasue there is enough beleif for them to do so. One Ghost story around the campfire and a new mass-murderer (ala Jason Voorhees) is born.
So I propose that the children are the gateway tothis (less developed) horror. It is all purpotrated by the paton ..er.. Demon of Childhood Feers - Bloody Mary - and can be controlled by the Blue Lady/Iemanjá if not eleimaitaed.
After all...theWhite Hats don't really eliminate evil...since ther eis always another evil around the bend. They are a BALANCE to the evil in the world. Its really a futile battle we fight isn't it. We are eventually destined to lse...that was the lesson Angel had at the end of the series.
It is important to fight...never give up. never surender.
Once this evil has been stemmed...then the WH can concentarte on the long term implications of a hellmouth.
I am not infavor of moving or redirecting the Hellmouth. Nope. It sits wrong with me somehow. If the event that triggered it being movid to LA in the first place was the complete destruciton of Sunnydale then something similar should be required to dislodge it from LA.
Its opening should be a firly minor event...after all itwas noted (but not considered dangerous) by the Watchers until the 1990's .. nealy 100 years after it opened in Sunnydale.
Even if we figure out it happened in LA...(and we may not really discern the sourceof the manifestations)...we might not consider it a danger until we have to deal with the larger implications of offesetting the evil it generates.
After all there is Hellmouth in Detroit that nobosy is doing ANYTHING about whatsoever. How bad can it be?
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From what we've seen on the show (by which, naturally, I mean Buffy), potentially apocolyptic with the right group. That's why it wouldn't surprise me if we've just never seen anyone in Detroit dealing with - MJ-12 probably has a permanent contingent there to deal with the "Whoops, Apocalypse" demons popping up, for instance. But just a Hellmouth in itself isn't a threat. Like any big mass of mystical energy, it's what end it gets used for.
Remember, we had no less than three attempts (the Master, the Sisterhood of Jhe, unnamed group of three demons) trying to do a full opening of the Hellmouth in Sunnydale. By all indications, doing this would have qualified as an "end of the world" type event (well, probably more "end of civilization" but "end of the world" sounds more dramatic).
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Alright, here's the Cliff's Notes version of what I assume this is what is going down this upcoming season:
--Hellmouth is opening in LA, attracting many baddies, including Bloody Mary, a vengeful ghost who steals the souls of street children with the help of her little cult of misguided street teens in order to return to our astral plan.
Not only will Bloody Mary be coming, but many typical childhood fears will surface. And er... the White Hats try to figure it out.--
If you wanna improve on this, feel free. I'm agitated, half asleep, and a wee bit sick. Not to mention I have to start working on another post before the "higher powers" realize my complete lack of posting, and attack me :?
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You are reading too much into Bloody Mary's motives. She's a medium bad to be sure but she's not trying to anything more than much on a pure soul or dozen. Her minions (as I outlined it at any rate) are the childhood fears. Freddy, Jason, Mike Meyers, the Bogey Man, Monsters under the bed, and anything else we can dream up. Of all the monsters she's the only real one...the others are just manifestations.
Ultimately we can defeat Bloody Mary (and should well before the middle of the season) but the Hellmouth will keep bringing her back. so we will have to create a second myth to counter her - the Blue Lady.
This will balance the evil but won't eliminate it. Make more sense now?
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Just as long as the Blue lady won't be too Disney I'm in.
Seeing some very interesting possibilities with this.
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If we follow the Blue Lady/Iemanjá persona she wont be. I'd really like we did so. If we change Meghan's story a little to be more South American sounding, maybe making the evil widow mexican (remember the 'La Llorona' Mexican myth, that is eerily similar to Bloody Mary) it'd be only natural than another South American deity counterbalanced her.
Maybe it's just me, because of my connection to those myths, but i find the Santería and their Orishas fascinating, and they are pretty different from what we have been dealing with before. We have white magic and dark magic in that universe too, even an Orisha that deals with crossroads and places where magic gets to the earth plane! It really fits with the Hellmouth idea we are considering.
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Ok, this is from Chris, he can't post and he asked me to do it for him.
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Can you post a Reader's Digest version in the Character Diary?
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so ey what happens when a kid dosnet fear anymore or when a kid stands up to a fear at least cos well alot of shit has sceard me but ive found when you stand up to it loses alot of its impact ?
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The crazy Scot's got a point :P
Maybe that's what gives Blue Lady her power or something? Kids standing up to their fears? Or maybe she materialises as that. Ehh...I'm just throwing out ideas here.
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What do you want exactly, Dave? A summary of the Santería religion, Iemanjá or Bloody Mary aka La Llorona?
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All three actually...or at least a few links we can explore.
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Ok, the one on Santería or Yoruba religion is ready. You can find it here.
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I have read what you wrote and it's great! That gives me a lot of ideas we can use for this season. Here are just a few:
* Bloody Mary is an Orisha and can be appeased. Her tribute is dreams. However since so few children (or adults) can do lucent dreaming it is hard for them to meet her greed. Maybe it is fear that 'feeds' her?
* Iemanjá (The Blue Lady) is another Orisha who's "bribe" could be more achievable. Prayer is mentioned in Ally's writeup. And it would make a good counterpoint.
* There is a lot of meaty symbols that we can use as well.
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I like the idea of Bloody Mary being an Orisha. I didn’t find any 'evil' orishas in the pages I researched, mostly the same ones summoned 'for good' or 'for evil'. But that doesn’t mean we can't make it up, actually I'd prefer it that way, so we won't end up offending anybody by placing evil intentions in a real deity. What do you think? Iemanjá's different, since she'll be doing the 'good' thing and saving children.
About that, when it comes to children, Iemanjá wouldn’t need any ebo (sacrifice or offerings) since she considers herself mother of all children and she's their natural protector. But we may need to approach her by prayer or sacrifice when it comes to helping adults. Remember that in the article, all that children needed to do is call her 'real name' and she'd come to their aid. This could be a whispered secret, known only by the children.
We could use any of these names, I particulary like Janaína or Okute (since Yemaya Okute is the warrior impersonation of the Iemanjá)
There are many things adults could offer Iemanjá, she's not a greedy Orisha and usually doesn’t demand animal sacrifice, although of course it must not be too easy, and in the end we may need more help to banish Bloody Mary. Remember there are three Orishas in the Yoruba pantheon that are called the Guerreros or Warriors, those are Eleggua (Orisha of crossroads aka Hellmouth), Ogun (Orisha of War) and Ochosi (protector of Warriors). We may need them too and they are much more difficult to persuade…
Ok, I'll try to write something on Bloody Mary, taking into account what Meghan wrote and the real legend of Bloody Mary or La Llorona, and the Orisha worship.
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so i take it ally will be leading on the season 5 big bad which i assume everyone wnats to be bloody mary :?:
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Well it was my understanding that the 'big bad' would be the phenomena that causes Bloody Mary to appear - namely the Hellmouth. Much like the Dopplegangers in Season Two, aparitions and demonic activity will continue to reproduce itself until the Hellmouth is dealt with in such a way to stop such occurances - like the Evil Entity in Poplar Avenue's basement.
In that thread, Bloody Mary is ONE snapshot of the bigger picture. On the question about Ally leading the BM story - I have no idea. The prospect of Season Five so far has been an amalgamation of ideas. I suggested the Hellmouth as a source of demonic nastiness (basically so I could finish my own storyline) and it was Dave I think who first suggested the appearance of childhood nightmares and storybook nasties that would haunt the people of LA. The Bloody Mary idea was brought up AGES ago (by Meg or Matt I think??) and Ally has kindly lent her expertise and research skills to develop the idea so...
Go figure.
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As Lou said, i've just used my knowledge of the Umbanda or Santería mythology to give grounds to Bloody Mary and her counterpart Iemanjá. I already posted a kind of NPC profile for Iemanjá and i sent Dave a NPC profile for Bloody Mary for him to polish some time ago (hint, hint, Dave :wink: ) where i just gave Meghan's Bloody Mary a more Latinamerican flavor and adapted her to the ideas we have been pondering.
I dont intend to lead the season, if anybody actually did so, far from that. Besides i already stated my feelings about the children issue, so i reckon i'll be dealing more with other problems that will probably arise. However, I guess that all that background knowledge could appear again in the game when the White Hats start putting two and two together, since Alessa will surely recognize the deities as i did (Umbanda is as alive in Paraguay as it is in Uruguay). More than that, i dont know.
PS- and it was Matt :D
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Ok, so I know it is kinda late now, to add this, but hear me out would you. I have a semi alternate idea for season 5 which includes the hellmouth stuff.
Ok so I was talking with Lou, and the basic Idea I got about the Hell mouth is that it isnt opening so much as moving places. This causes barriers between worlds to weaken, and therefor making it easier for nasties to come into our plane.
Now working with that I thought of this. What if some nameless big bad (looks at Matt and Dave and winks) goes and releases a set of really bad demons who have all been independantly banish or sealed away what have you (like maybe Bloody mary as one of them), and creates a group of badguys. They would be like the Injustice league to our Justice League, The Brotherhood of evil mutants to our X-Men, effectively the BlackHats to our WhiteHats.
It could be cool cause like it would give us the chance to come up with some really wicked evil NPCs who arent independantly super powerful, but rather equally powerful to each member of the WHs. like a gang war (not to mention that alot of other lesser demons would be getting released cause of the Hell Mouth.
NOW moving on from this, I thought of 2 courses of action it could lead to
A) The Black Hats main purpose is obviously to cause carnage death and destruction but ultimately trying to open the hellmouth and destroy the world.
B) The Black Hats are eager to take on the WH's but the mysterious figure (there leader who you will not see this season [winks again]) tells them a better course of action. Since no one ever seems to beat the white hats dont actually go after them. Instead the Black Hats mission is to kill the children who are destined to be the next generation of WHs so in like 50 years time there would be no one around to stop there plan (so namely Kyle, Cole [if he's back] Quin, Maia, and other kids in the city). So like the WH's wouldhave to figure that out and like eventually protect the kids in LA.
C) use a combination of A and B
ok well thats my idea, tell me what you think. :)
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PS: I think option B was subconciously inspired by Buffy season 7, and I realized that after I came upwith it.
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Like Shaun said, he talked his idea through with me and there are definately elements that I like. For one, a few people have said to me that though they like the Bloody Mary story they're not that bothered about persuing it. This angle, that BM is just one of a league of baddies that have been unleashed (with specific purpose) then that opens up things alot more. In this way rather than draw out the BM story to cover the whole season before we realise it's the hellmouth that's causing such phenomenon, we could perhaps tackle individual nasties in a more 'monster of the week' ala old school Buffy (perhaps worth consideration since we haven't dealt with a baddie in-season in that way before.)
If there were a larger, more powerful figure directing this aparant wholesale carnage then that's fine by me - ties everything in together more neatly towards the end. A or B - either plan is fine by me since as I've mentioned before, my own storyline will be more focused on the Ministry's efforts to 'deal' with the Hellmouth (stablising, closing, controling - whatever is called for.)
Again, and as I said to Shaun, I'm not so in to the child aspect of this idea, but that's mainly because on an individual level I've already explored those ideas of childhood loss and death and the impact it has last season. And of course Kate and Galen now have no children - that won't be a direct threat in the way it would be for say Daye who still has Maia, or Cole/Quin/Adriana/Kyle who would all be in the firing line.
Either way, so long as the Hellmouth is included you have my vote. :D
On one more note, I don't think it's really all late to be offering ideas since it appears this Midseason will still run for some time (we've only covered just over a month!)
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I am liking that idea, Shaun :D
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im a sucker for any sort of comic book action so im up for it the only thing i ask is if you could sorta get me involved in it if it dose go cos i was planning on vince to be hagging around/protecteing the kids from whoever was hunting them (i think someone mentiend teenagers?) :)
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Okay, I'll have to admit, I was a little skeptical about the BB originally, but couldn't really think of anything better (that I could do yet *winks at Shaun*). So my general attitude was, you got it: meh.
THEN I read this. And I think: OOOOOOH. Honestly, I think its better. As the Scottish fella above me said, it has comic book appeal and I started thinking of several ideas I could use that I've been floating about for a bit.
So, that has my Seal of Approval :)
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After talking with Ally, I am excited for you guys. The Bloody Mary deal sounds cool. I look forward to keeping up with the board to see where you go with it.
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I'm feeling like a lot of ground just got rehashed here... Months ago we were talking about the Hellmouth being in the process of moving to LA rather than opening, AND we were also talking about that process causing all sorts of minor evils to manifest, ONE of which would be Bloody Mary.
So, since I liked the idea way back then and this "new" proposal looks very much like a carbon copy, yeah, I still say go with it.
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So you basically want to make Bloody Mary more of an "episode" villain rather than a Season one. Okay, but I have some points about that format that I want to address.
All bad guys want this. Becasue if they weren't they wouldn't need us. M12, the Ministry, and the National Guard can handle non-apocolytic threats. The White Hats specialize in "end of the world" level danger. This is basically a redundant statement
There is no need to spell this out so specifically this season. In fact it works better if you don't. I would limit this idea to two salient points: There is a leader, and nobody knows who it is. I wouldn't spill the enitre plan until nearer the end of the season when the WH manage to stop putting out small fires and find out who is setting them.
Now...here are my problems with the Many-Bads over the Big-Bad.
Who creates the Many-Bads? We do? Sure, fantastic idea...so Lou creates a Many-Bad and I create one and Heather and Shaun...and who fights them?
Uh I fight mine, you fight yours, and Lou fights hers. Where is the teamwork here? It isn't. The whole idea of a "season" is that we come together as group to face a single threat that accentuates our spirit of teamwork and willingness to forgive our individual faults.
If I was to give LABN an over arching theme it is that dispite our rugged individuality we are all willing to suppress our need to be individuals to work as a team to accomplish a task. Does that take leaders? Sure. Does it mean that we have people who don't seem to carry their weight? Yep. But that is the nature of a team.
We support the weak players as much as we support the strong ones. If you want to do a series of Multi-bads, then unless we know ahed of time who all of the players are (like the Brotherhood was defined well ahead of using them) then we can work against them as a group.
And, unless I am mistaken, that was what you and I had discussed for next season rather than this one. If you want to accellerate that plotline and do it here right now, then I am game, but I wanted to say why.
My thinking on the "Bloody Mary" storyline is that it introduces several concepts that will be important later on for season six (rather than trying to define everything up front).
- The Hellmouth isn't "open" it is merely "present" and it's persence is both unavoidable and has an effect on the city of L.A. It does not eject demons because is isn't open, it is just there...but it does attract trouble. (if it does open it is game over for all of us)
- There will be a guardian of the Hellmouth, but they aren't the ones we want to guard it becasue you will constantly question their motives..Since the presence of the Hellmouth will generate a lot of suspicion that means we get to deal with this "other player" more becasue they aren't the threat.
- Things happen in the presence of a Hellmouth and with a less involved threat we can learn more about what those "things" are.
Bloody Mary's plot isn't the worst thing that can happen, but there is no reason it cannot segue into this larger season 6 plotline that you've discussed. BM starts down a course of action that our Mystery Leader sees as useful so he/she sets her minions into doing something more proactive in order to divert attention away from him/her and the dudes.We fight BM, stop her madness, but then the danger doesn't stop...and leads us into your idea in time for midseason where it is more appropriate. Midseason is where we act as individuals. Make more sense now?
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I get your point Dave, but I think you like didnt see it the way I saw it. WE WOULD make up the so called Black Hat team before the season starts (like maybe 6 of us would come up with a NPC everyone thinks is cool. and the GROUP would act as a big bad. Like 3 members would tag team 1 White hat, and like the guy I create would for sure attack Tash at some point. Like it wouldnt be exclusive. But I mean it was just an idea. If you think its too much like the season 6 we had been discussing im willing to push off till Midseason to start it up. But like now that I cleared it up, let me know what you think
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It makes total sense to me, an outsider on this particular discussion. I'd like to say, as a new member of LABN (back when I was running Sam), I was disoriented. I came into the site confused and I left confused. Now, in hindsight, I see the mission statement of LABN more clearly. Dave just said it pretty well.
Teamwork.
LABN fails to achieve the Buffy feel, in my opinion, in this regard. Too many writers doing their own thing (I have always been super guilty of that). A well-crafted story requires that there is more time spent on the plot than subplots.
But this isn't quite a novel. As Heather kept having to remind me so long ago, this is a roleplaying game. The uncertainty of roleplaying without a gamemaster leads to tangents. Tangents are fun! You get to explore your character. But while exploring your character apart from the group, you have to create conflicts for him, because who wants to read non-conflicted stories? To create conflicts, you have to create mini-Big Bads. And suddenly you have a lot of Big Bads running around the board, loose and fancy free.
I believe in spending time on character, giving him a purpose other than to wait around for the Big Bad to happen. But if I were to do it over, I'd spend much more time in conference with the other players, figuring out exactly what is planned for the season ahead.
This is a very difficult hobby, as presented on LABN. It's fiction, so you want to tell a good story. It's a game, so you can't say for certain what the outcome will be. It's GM-less; there's no one to write the story in which we will play. Thankfully, we have Dave and Heather dangling carrots, but it's just too easy to go for the steak.
This is a fun site. But it takes effort and concentration on teamwork. I don't know what kind of responses you've gotten from outsiders; I do know that as an outsider I found it difficult to get into the story, knowing where to begin and what the central conflict was. Eventually, I caught on. I had the players to help me. Not so easy for the casual surfer.
Whenever I start spouting off like this, I worry. I don't want to sound like I'm telling anyone in particular that he's not being a team player. In fact, that's not what I'm saying. I am remembering how detached Sam Aubrey was--how detached I was--and I figure that if it happened to me, it can happen to others.
So this is just me speaking my mind. You'll either find truth in it or you won't. It either applies or it doesn't. Mostly, I'm kicking myself, no one else. It's a point of sadness that I don't' believe I've spoken till now. Confessing my sins and whatnot.
I like what LABN has achieved. It's full of imaginative people--decent human beings, to boot. And with no finely tuned point at my disposal, I end this post.
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I can see where Sid is coming from with this. It's true that LABN doesn't have the group camraderie of Buffy - I think that's probably what you meant. Too little time socialising around BB's I think, as in we only tend to collaborate when something bad happens, or for a major event. It's never friends chilling out playing scrabble on a Sunday night or eating pizza whilst watching bad 80's retro movies. We tend rather to block ourselves in our little corners, like Poplar Avenue or Bibilophile or Birch Street and never journey out or cross paths unless it's neccessary to save the world.
But then of course we don't have every hour of our lives to dedicate to writing this and as anyone who's written in an end of season finale knows it takes a lot of time and organisation to pull so many people together. Time we just wouldn't have if every post were structured like this.
Hence we have alot of mini-collabs and solo stories because otherwise we'd probably still be writing Season Two because it would take so long to get every 'episode' written. Writing is a craft, but LABN really isn't, quite often style is compromised when players write together which is only natural since we all have different style. This isn't a professional endeavour, I believe we're firmly rooted in our amateur status which is where the fun lies really. It's fun to write and let your imagination go crazy and actually have a place to post it and let others read and maybe even get involved. But we're not Buffy, were we ever trying to be?
Anyway, in terms of the BB for season five, I agree we don't want to lose the teamplayer element, but then I have reservations about having a season dedicated TOO much to the dream/nightmare thread since alot of that was explored with Mother Mariah - hey what do I know, I realise the two are very different I'm just voicing a slight concern, I know people write well on this board so things will be interesting no matter what.
I WOULD like to know what we're aiming for in terms of the finale. I mean, obviously if it's this mysterious leader idea that will be our focus but if it's the Hellmouth (which isn't OPENING, my point was that because it has appeared in Los Angeles it may have a moment where it's influence on our dimension is particularly strong). The point I was trying to make is that the initial influx of craziness and evil manifestations obviously cannot be constant forever, there must be some form of rebalancing.
Maybe we should try to work on what our ending will be (loosely) and work forward from there?
Anyway, it's late and I'm turning my single remaining braincell off for the night. It needs recharging.
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
I like it, Shaun.
It could work out pretty well (just as long as that whole thing with the future white-hats doesn't become to Terminator-ish), though there's one part that kinda confuses me. Will the White-hats just fight the Black-hats or will there be some confrontation with the major Baddy behind the thing?
But I like it and I also like the thing with us playing the Black-hats as well. *Starts to rummage his mind for ideas and twirls his fingers evily and laughing madly.* :D
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
God, I hope not. :)
To my mind, LABN has always been about a game/story set in the same world as Buffy but being quite distinct from the show. We've never really used the same format as a Buffy or Angel episode, simply because we don't have a single main character to focus upon. It's one of the things that attracted me to this game in the first place; that there would be no Slayer character, no one person who would be more important than all the others. All of us are writing stories from the perspective of our own main character - and LABN is born when those myriad "lead roles" all get together to collaborate in a writing effort.
Solo stories are interesting - to a point. And solo stories are necessary from time to time to expand on our characters without the pressure of keeping to a major plotline (hence the Midseasons). It's our group efforts, though, that make this site what it is. Even the process of deciding how to structure our season's Big Bad gets us all thinking about how we're going to be interacting with each other during the Season.
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
You have all achieved that, and you've done well. I think your mission, which I've just now understood clearly, as if my eyes have been opened for the the first time, is to make LABN about more than one single hero. It's about many heroes, plucked out of their worlds where they once ruled and thrown into someplace larger (Los Angeles, as it were). It's like one big movie starring Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Wonder Woman, Fox Mulder, Wolverine, Lara Croft, and, for some of us, Inspector Clousseau.
I would like to say, as a reader, it would be nice to see a little more Buffy . I liked reading about Steve the Not-So-Ancient Evil. It reminded me that Buffy is not only drama, action, and horror. It's stitched together with humor and pop culture references.
I agree, though, LABN is not and should not be Buffy. You are simply occupying the Buffyverse , which is what first brought each us here, originally.
Several years ago, I typed "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Roleplaying Game" in my web browser. If someone had told me, at that moment, what my surfing would have lead to--posts and friends and Sam and cast parties--I'd have probably have given serious pause.
Then clicked "SEARCH" post haste.
:)
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
ok all this big debate aside, i think i will clarify a few things:
The Black Hats (or whatever) are a group of demons who banded together to work together to try an ensure that once the hell mouth has moved, they can actually open it. It would NOT be a monster of the week. The group as an entity would be the big bad (along with mini monsters that the hell mouth would attract). Think how the brotherhood was 4 people but the big bad was the brotherhood group (the thing is, these demons alone wouldnt be overly powerful)
2) the mysterious person who brought them together would NOT be seen in Season 5. the person is something Dave, Mat and I have been tossing around for season 6.
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
Okee dokee...It's about themes folks. This happened at the last minute last season and while the outcome was good, I think at some point someone needs to step back and demonstrate big picture.
Season one's theme was "Who are you?"
Season two was "What if you were your own worst enemy?"
Season three was "What if we can't just kill it?"
Season four was "Who do you really trust?"
Season five?...I thought we were headed towards "What if the obvious enemy isn't the problem?"
That was what I was pitching. But this other idea can work and here's how:
12 weeks (3 months) for a regular season
Week 01: Mysterious murders among the children of LA touch all the characters in some way or another.
Week 02: Investigation finds stories about Bloody Mary and her war with the Blue Lady
Week 03: Find the Blue Lady and help her fight Bloody Mary . but the Blue Lady tells us about why BM was in LA...the Hellmouth
Week 04: Fuck! A Hellmouth, where is it? Oh Shit it's (I won't tell you just yet)
Week 05: Negotiations with the Hellmout's babysitters
Week 06: New weirdness in the form of child murders...Blue Lady says not her problem.
Week 07: First evidence of an organized evil...first hear the term "Black Hat"
Week 08: Black Hats confront a few "straggler" White Hats and whup em good.
Week 09: A new ally drawn to fight the weirdness of the Hellmouth gives some clues.
Week 10: The new ally helps you lay a trap for the Black Hats which fails
Week 11: New Ally is not your Ally...suckers!
Week 12: Fight New Ally in Showdown, but ally gets away by sacrificing Black Hats to escape.
Midseason: Lots of weirdness in LA from Hellmouth
Season 6: Theme - "The Enemy you know vs the enemy you Don't know." An old enemy comes to LA to help you against the new Enemy. Talhu? Valerian? Nicolas? Who knows...the list is pretty long.
Does this fit your ideas well enough? I realize it is tipping our hand on the whole "surprise ending" of the season by saying up front that the ally is the enemy but it will have to be that way if we are to get anywhere.
I am sorry I have to reveal this much of our ideas Matt and Shawn, but this is going in circles while we talk about hows and whys and so forth...we gotta tip at least this much to make clear how the season is to go.
Also, these timelines...just suggestions. They aren't in stone, it's just an outline for the order in which I see things happening.
Season 5ive Big Baddy Pants
Okay having tossed up my outline I have a seperate thing I want to talk about...
When this first started to shake out and we hit our stride, it was (more or less) by design. It has been and will continue to be driven by your ideas and your writing. But the format is basically one that Nick originated and Heather and I perpetuate.
The reason we are having longer and longer Midseasons is becasue we have more and more stories to write. We like our characters and care about their trials, triumphs and achievements. We live in them more than we want to admit.
But when the season rolls around...when we get organized and lock things in, we need to suppress the desire to write all the minutae of our lives into the season and write plot
It does not serve the story to drag everyone else down the path of your life..unless that path serves the season plot.
I think everyone would agree that the tightest plot and most successful story we have done to date was Season Three. We had a solid idea of the villain. We knew their agenda. We knew our plan (if not all the particulars as Robin showed us). We had some flex for good storytelling.
I had a subplot I needed to tell, but it served the story by removing the power players to another dimension...We knew the exact date we disappeared, and the exact date we would reappear without having to guess. This left the second string to fight the Big Bad...which balanced things. So I was allowed to pursue it in the context of the story and pushed to complete it on schedule.
When everyone came back we all moved in for the finale and it was a hum-dinger! Days of prep and editing and re-editing but in the end, it is the only season I can read front to back without weeping at mistakes. It is very solid.
It is the shortest season both in time and in pages. And I am bringing this up becasue we could do this again. With a full complement of players (and Sid) to round it out. It would mean a lot of planning and a lot of sacrifice of time and making commitments to do things and then pushing yourself to complete them.
But we have done it before and we can do it again.
I am content to let LABN languish in midseason forever...if it would prevent having another Season Four experience. Season four waffled, dilly-dallyed and dragged to its conclusion. Despite some really exciting bits there is a definate slack feel to the timing.
If we are going to pull together as a team and fight a big bad we need to write like we mean it. Feel the team spirit build within you and make a commitment to your fellow players and stand by that commitment. This is not just writing it is role-playnig. Play this role don't just record it.
I know that if Oz told Tash he'd do something, he damn well would do it...on time...as asked. If it wasn't done on time, Tash would know there was a good reason (not "I forgot", or "I was Busy").
We've all been guilty of it, and we all have commitments to the real world that are unavoidable. Thing happen (like computers frying and unexpected personal entanglements). We know it, this isn't a job or a manditory participation...but when it comes to writing a season it is a commitment. A commitment we need to treat as seriously as any personal commitment we would make to each other.
So...I am ready to get serious about this season. I'll talk it to death and back to make sure it is going to be...
Tight
Exciting
Thrilling
Intersting
and above all...
Fun
But in the end , once we have a plan, I intend to put my full share to it. Becasue I said I would.