Submitted by Allyana on Sun, 09/21/2003 - 08:39
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I’m asking this because in my character’s profile I stated that Alessa had a soul, inherited from her human father. I supposed that demons didn’t have souls, but I want to confirm it with you, much wiser people :);)
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Do demons have souls?
Some do, some don't. It all depends on their origins, really. An example of unsouled demons would be all the demons of Kain's race and the G'rnathan Battle Fiends (with some exceptions). Examples of souled demons are Tarix, Alice, Alaric, Thule, etc.
Do demons have souls?
Ok, there is sort of a question I've been thinking about. It might be kinda stupid but in that case ignore the madman's ramblings, but how exactly are the unsouled demon races sentient?
Since from my point of view the soul is for humanity the true place for the consciousness and without it the human body is nothing more than a shell. Then where exactly lies the essence of these demons?
And also another quiestion I thought about... How does this work for vampires? I mean I know that vamps have got certain parts left of the soul that makes up their personality and memories, but that's the only part that's left since they're nothing more than possessed corpses. Then where exactly does the demon get its counsciousness from if it hasn't got a soul?
Do demons have souls?
I would hardly credit the soul as being the seat of sentience, IMHO.
The 'soul' seems to me to be more of a spiritual thing - the essence of a being. Sentience is a product of intelligence and awareness.
I would argue, for instance, that a dog (or a cat, or a horse, etc) has a soul*, but is not a sentient being. In this way, yes it's very possible for demons and vampires to be 'soulless' but still possess sentience.
*Yes, I know some will argue that 'dumb' animals don't possess a soul, but if you've ever looked into your pet's eyes you'll know what I mean. It's definitely there. :)
Do demons have souls?
OK, I see. Like I said, sort of stupid question.
Do demons have souls?
Oh no, in this sort of area there's no such thing as a stupid question. Let's face it, metaphysics is a pretty wishy-washy topic - nobody can say for certain one way or another exactly what's what. What I posted up there is my opinion on the matter of souls and sentience - I'm sure other people have different opinions.
I think, for the sake of consistency within the game, however, it's best if we follow along the general examples set down in Buffy and Angel, which seems to point to soulless beings being able to possess consciousness and awareness and intelligence.
Do demons have souls?
The abilty to Love, emote, care, or have any kind of "meaningful" feelings aren't the parlance of the soul, but are emotions which are instinctual responses. Emotions developed in response to a survival need.
The Intellect comprised of Instinct, Knowledge, Reason, and Detachment.
- Instinct is anything that we do not learn to do. Emotions aren't learned, we have them from birth.
- Knowlege is what we learn. Facts, phenomena, and observations. Facts need not be absolute truths only truths for us.
- Reason is the ability to apply knowledge to new situations. Extrapolate or adapt.
- Detachment is the ability to act in a way contrary to what your instincts and knowledge tell you. To defy that which is reasonable and self-preserving.
Sentience, Morality, and Essential Being are the realms of the Soul.
- Sentience is the ability to interact in a meaningful way with your environment. It can mean social interactions or it can mean adapting one's environment to suit your needs (rather than adapting one's self to match the environment - which is evolution).
- Morality is the ability to feel a 'rightness' of action that is in harmony with the larger "good" of the environment. Adam's 'the good of Nature' concept.
- Essential being is a spark of life that defines one's being. An aura. A 'life force'. Essence. Mana. Whatever you call it, it is what makes you unique even if you have an identical twin.
Presence, Charisma, Spirituality, and those sorts of things are how we can sense the presence of these qualities of beings.
A being can be Intelligent but not sentient - Think about Brain-eating Zombies. They can open doors. Bang on walls, and generally use tools to get to your juicy brains, but they aren't what you would call sentient.
There can be morality without Reason (the chip) and Detachment without Essential Being (the Vampiric State).
In the vampire's case, the "Soul" (Sentience, Morality and Essential Being) are replaced by the demon. The original "soul" is lost. The Vampire Demon is essentially taking over for the Soul.
If a Vampire gets his Soul back it replaces the demon. The demon is relegated to either 1) leaving the body, 2) being suppressed (Angelus) , Being integrated(Spike) or fighting it out (Stalker).
Adam wrote an excellent article about the "survivability of self" in vampires which is somewhere around here. i suggest you reference it for more on this topic.
Do demons have souls?
More specifically (because I wanted to look it over again to see if my thinking changed), that essay currently lives in The Show and can be found here.
The thing I should note is, when tracking Vampires, I left out an Angelus/Angel cycle because of what happens on the show Angel. I still haven't seen it... and well I can't stand David Boreanaz.
One other note would be that I looked purely at what our values of personal survival entailed.
Do demons have souls?
i dont get that how can the demon leave the body that would mene that they are no longer vampires becuse isent the demon the thing that gives the dead body life and as such
Do demons have souls?
Perhaps its more of a process??? i mean for example when a demon comes into a corspe it can't actually survive can it with a corpse? so with more of a mystical reason the body becomes "super human" with vampire strength and sorts and a demon in the seat to drive the body, and when the demon leaves the body that morphed to accompany the strong demon stays.....
sorry guys, i really appologise for the feeble explanation but thats my two cents, maybe it might help a bit...
Do demons have souls?
making the demon leave will mean that the body is indeed a corpse. Yep. No doubt about that.
Now Explain Darla in another way?
Her body was dead (dust in fact) but still held by the demon. Eliminate the demon, reconstitute the body, and restore the soul.
I included the option for completelness, but yes it would necessitate the ressurection or re-animation of the dead flesh. I say we ask our resident Necromancer Marcus about options in that regard.
Do demons have souls?
Certainly I'd be willing to give you the benefit of my expertise...
for a price of course.