Submitted by Logan on Tue, 08/02/2005 - 23:03
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Now that season 5 is about to be underway, we need to think up the villains who will be part of the bad group (AKA The Black Hats)
I was just speaking with Dave and he suggested they should be specifically chosen for their abilities to defeat 1 (or more) specific White Hat (Maybe that didnt come out clear so ill give an example)
That Anti-Magic Demon would be a good pick to deal with the witches of the WHs...
Ok, now that thats established, we figured we'd leave the doors open for people to write up the profiles. So basically, post here if you have an idea for someone (Or even better, if you have the profile, post it here so everyone can review it). I got an idea or two, and ill be posting soon
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Season Five: Black Hats
Zayn would have been more of a manipulator than a double-agent, IMO; and even if double-agent can be applied to her, she would be a black hat one (that is, one ultimately loyal to the black hats) as opposed to a white hat one (that is, an agent ultimately loyal to the white hats).
Season Five: Black Hats
Regardless of titles, you kinda ignored the point of my post
Season Five: Black Hats
I should probably predicate this with the fact that I am in a fair amount of pain right now, and have no access to pain killers; meaning that my mind is not quite working right.
Anyway... I'm not sure that Zayn getting the BH together rules out a double-agent. And the altered proposal (I think) implies that the end of season five deals with the settling of the Hellmouth, but still leaves the Black Hats - and, presumably, Zayn - still around to cause trouble for us, either over midseason or even into season six.
Season Five: Black Hats
Still kinda missing the point. I think - well, no, I know - that what Shaun is saying is that the plan for this season was discussed and decided on (afaik) a while ago. I know it was a while ago because I forgot and had to get Shaun to remind me on at least two occasions.
Now a bunch of new ideas have come up, replaced others, changed this, removed that and basically accepted as scripture before I even knew what was going on, let alone anybody else. In doing so the shape of the next season has changed considerably (only here and there, you might say, but considerably nonetheless). We're not dealing with street kids haunted by a murderous urban legend followed by an attack by Black Hats organised by a next season BB whilst all the while coming to terms with the Hellmouth shifting around. Now we're dealing with three international groups all jostling with each other for control over the hellmouth and a little cameo from the Black Hats (which is increasingly what it looks like is going to happen) and a very wishy-washy "do what you want with Zayn." Imo, the focus has gone from a much more personal, character focused season to a large-scale, politically intruiging story arc similar to how last season finished (what with the cast of thousands and big battle and all).
Now regardless of the fact that there were those of us who were looking forward to the BM/BL thing or that I feel this new idea is less inspiring than the original plan, the thing that got mine (and others) goats is that this popped up a couple of days ago and bam thats it, thats what we're doing. There's about a page and a half of discussion mostly from me and Shaun and I think Jamie too going "hang on, what about this?" only to be met with "you're thinking of the wrong thing", "we've decided not to do that" and "if you want that to happen you can but we're not thinking about it anymore" and that's that.
Well, okay, so that was maybe more than a little harsh and passionate teen here's got his blood up - but the point still stands. It looks as though this has pretty much been changed overnight and left a number of us in the lurch thinking "wtf?".
Season Five: Black Hats
Actually, in my approaching to this, nothing is final until the appropriate posts have been made on the board. Meaning that just because we're discussing a possible revision to the overall plot, doesn't mean that we're not necessarily going to drop the entire plot. Personally, I like the idea of the Black Hats as a multi-seasonal or not-entirely-dealt-with-in-season-five thing; from my approach, the point of the season five has pretty much always been the settling of the Hellmouth in Los Angeles.
So, if I do any work with that, it's always on the proviso that, unless we don't post anything with BM, unless we do post something with these multiple offers, nothing is set. Yes, there were remarks about Ministry and Order officials made, but those aren't entirely unreasonable if they do know about them; we can just get to tell, with the PCs, one part.
Yeah, I do get caught up in terminology... because I thought the idea was clear. If a lot of people are still planning for, and depending on, BM/BL, we don't have to change that, and can in fact keep it. I'm not about to tell people what they can and can't write; we have an overall structure, and more than enough room to have stories intersect.
Why can't the Order try to offer to help and Bloody Mary be killing children at the same time? There should be more general problems, and the specific ones that we're trying to counter, after all.
Season Five: Black Hats
Hi guys.
Let me try to explain what I think happen here. Some people seem to have that. ”Did I miss a memo” look on the faces.
2 weeks ago I met up with Dave and Heather and the subject came up about what was happening in LABN and whether or not I was going to start writing for Alice again. I told them that I was thinking about bring Alice back only to find her friend Tash was slain by Nik and then having her become a bad guy for a time. I suggested making her a BH. We talked about her having a change of heart (around week12 by the looks of Heathers post) and tell the WH who the BH leader was. Now (I think) Heather referred to Alice as the double agent for the WH but she also left it open for the BL to reveal the leader of the BH. They left it floating whether or not its Alice or BL because Dave didn’t know if I was going to get off my butt and write something or not. :)
I don’t see why the BM/BL storyline cant move along as before . Unless it’s a key point that the BL has to be the one to tell the WH about Zayn being the double-agent leader of the BH. (truthfuly im not shore if im not mixing something up here. i know the the BL was to tell about the hellmouth )
Another note is the referring to both Alice and Zayn as the double -agent did its part to confuse who the leader of the BH was going to be.
Now if me writing Alice up as a BH for the season is going to mess anything up with anyone’s post please let me know.
Season Five: Black Hats
Please, John, I don’t think anybody would object your idea for Alice this season, hell… at least you have a plan! And a good one. I still don’t know what Alessa will be doing at all! I think we should work out the details of who's saying what when we get there. There are a lot of bridges to cross before that.
Now about all this, you know what? I don't like Zayn's story line. I don't like the BM/BL, I don't like the Hellmouth opening and keeping open, not having a Big Bad, the Ministry, the Order, W&H... that's all gibberish for me…
Wow, that was liberating. :) :oops:
That doesn’t mean I won't try my best to fit into the season, but this seems too disperse. Look how many heavy weights we have in our arena: the Ministry, the Order, Wolfram and Hart, Zayn and her plans, the Black Hats, Bloody Mary and the Blue Lady if we keep them...
How will we go about all this? Like we’ll all be writing different things. I fail to see it as a ‘season’. It may be me, but I don’t know, it’s too ‘large’. Even the Black Hats, I have my qualms about that. A personal evil for each of us? it sounds too much like midseason to me, I fail to see the teamwork.
And worst of all… it keeps changing! It’s starting to feel like quicksand under my feet.
Now, please don’t misinterpret me, but I'm really, really, really at odds here and, like Adam said before, I should probably predicate this with the fact that I'm also in pain, I’ve been secluded at home for more than a week now, I was kicked by an antibiotic that’s more fit to horses than humans, my ex came to visit today and that always puts me down, and the girls don’t stop from fighting… not in the best of moods. Please, bear with me.
Season Five: Black Hats
I think we need to all get on MSN and hash this out because I dont think anyone is on the same page lol
Season Five: Black Hats
Okay, let's start at the start. I think some of the confusion began when Dave put up a suggested timeline based on discussions already in the S5 discussion threads about the role of Valor and the Ministry and W&H, concentrating on the effects there. Sure, that timeline didn't mention the Bloody Mary thing etc, because IT WAS ONLY ABOUT A PART OF THE PLOT, NOT ALL OF IT.
So when people began saying 'oh, but what about Zayn, etc', my reply was that whatever had already been planned was still on the go. Bloody Mary hasn't disappeared. The Black Hats certainly haven't disappeared. Zayn's role is totally unchanged from what has already been discussed (as Adam pointed out, she was never a "double agent" but was set up as an ally - outside of the White Hats but working with us).
ALICE (if John isn't put off by all this hoo-hah) will be a double agent, separate and distinct from Zayn's role as external ally. Alice is ALREADY a White Hat - and can therefore be called a double agent. Zayn is NOT a White Hat and therefore can't be given that title, though as an ally she can certainly still betray us. This is where the second part of the confusion appears to have arisen - a misunderstanding over terminology.
So Jamie - no need to throw out any of your Bloody Mary stuff. Shaun and Matt - NOWHERE did anyone say "we've decided not to do that". In fact, we've repeatedly said since you guys first started saying "hang on" that the old plan is in fact still in effect. I was under the impression that all the Bloody Mary and Black Hat stuff was already set, so didn't need mentioning in regards to how Valor/Ministry/W&H interactions would work out (which was what Dave's post was all about).
And as for the W&H stuff being a "new idea" that "popped up overnight", I remind you that the W&H involvement was discussed waaay back when the S5 thread was first opened (I can't be fagged going back to check exactly what date it was, but I will if you want me to). So it's not new by any stretch and there's been plenty of chances for people to add to it, change it, say they don't like it, or whatever.
Personally, I think the whole season will work out really well. On the one hand we start out with the PCs dealing with the Bloody Mary/Blue Lady stuff, and segue onto the arrival of the Black Hats. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, W&H and the Ministry (and Valor) are jostling for position in regards to the hellmouth. About halfway through the season the White Hats finally learn what's causing the upsurge in nastiness, thanks to Zayn or the Blue Lady or whoever was meant to tell us. Meanwhile we have Alice (ostensibly a full White Hat) working for the Black Hats. And we have Zayn (ostensibly helping out the White Hats) being the leader of the Black Hats. She only tells us of the hellmouth because W&H is sitting on it and the Black Hats can't get to it without the help of the White Hats, so she needs our altruistic do-gooder tendencies to help fight W&H.
It's going to have plenty of opportunities for intensely personal stories, as well as an overarching plot (the definition of a Season) that ties in a bunch of disparate groups all with their own agendas.
Now, every single element of that plotline (with the exception of the late addition of Alice, since John's only just emerged into the light again, and of the Valor connection through one of the Black Hat NPCs) has already been discussed and explained MONTHS ago. The new additions are relatively minor, and came about (as I just said) through an NPC connection to Valor and to John's return to the fold.
So please, stop with the knee-jerk reactions already, huh? This should be a great season - let's not spoil it by getting all hot under the collar about perceived 'changes' about things that haven't been changed in the slightest.
Season Five: Black Hats
Okay guys, this has got insane and I can barely remember the issue at all. Things have calmed down now by the looks, and so I kinda wanna follow in Ally's trend by saying a few things:
1) I had not realised Dave was only talking about part of the plot, not all of it. Whether this is me being a fool or Dave not making it clear enough is up to what you think but I certainly feel a slight fool for letting this get too large.
2) Dave said: Lets set aside the whole Bloody Mary/Blue Lady storyline for a minute...(perhaps we can use it in a mid-season or work it in in another way)...with then no mention of her in the plan or after, it looked like she was gone. Nor was she in Heather's third revised list.
3) I mistook Adam's double-agent for a scheme me and Shaun thought up a while ago. Having not known that John was thinking about bringing back Alice as a good guy working for the bad guys, I simply assumed he had heard of the idea for Zayn. I asked, he explained, all was rosy but I guess others got confused in the process.
4) Of course, by this point, there was a lot of stuff suddenly coming up. It may have looked like only a little to you but to me and others it looked bigger.
5) I've just re-read and re0read the posts and everytime it happens I see us making it more and more complicated. People, myself included as I've outlined a ocuple of them above, start making assyumptions and get very defensive. Before long, someone seems to think me and Shaun are rejecting NPCs or PC switches, we're thinking people are authoritarily axing our storylines, etc, etc.
6) I think Ally might be right when she says there's a little too much going on this season. Don't agree with me? Fine. Tell me. And then I need to tell you what I think about that, etc, etc. As I've seen Dave say on a number of occasions, we as a community need to communicate. We really haven't done that recently have we? I'm guilty for that too and turning all hostile.
7) Sorry for my part in making this much worse than it needs to be. :oops:
8) Sorry for my part in making this much worse than it needs to be. :oops:
9) Sorry for my part in making this much worse than it needs to be. :oops:
10) Sorry for my part in making this much worse than it needs to be. :oops:
PS: I'm a teenager. We're rebellious and anti-authority lol :P I'm just sorry I didn't do something like this earlier, rather than getting more hostile :?
Season Five: Black Hats
I need to aplogise for the "chaos bomb" effect. Where I used to work, the President of the company would come in and make a blanket statement based on an idea or thought he had had. Sometimes it was a dream or fantasy, and rarely was it ever pertinent to what we were working on. Then he would want to talk about it for 40 minutes.
This was called a chaos bomb and it never failed to derail all of us.
So I apologise for that. But My brain made a connection to part of the Season Five plotline that I felt was going to get neglected: The Bad Guys and the Power Vacuum. It seemed logical to address it.
I can be dismissive to things not pertinent to my thought. I hate having to go back and re-fit things into my idea becasue I then lose the train of thought. I'd rather go all the way forward and then when I reach the end of it...back up and retrofit. Thats how my brain works. It's a drag racer not a Nascar.
I dismissed the BM/BL plotline and Zayne because they weren't part of my idea. But I didn't dispose of them. I just set them aside. Now that H and Adam and everyone else has come along they've done most of the retrofit already.
Adam is dead on: Zayne will betray us, but she's not a White Hat and so can't be a Double Agent. Alice is one of us and her betrayal will cut the WH pretty deep. That is what Double Agents do.
I sympathise with Ally and her lack of direction. I have the same problem. That is why I am focussing on the (literally) dozens of Bad Guys who will need voices during this season.
SO: (drum roll please) That is why I proposed the plotline I did the way I did
This is how those of us that are "struggling to find a hook into the plotline can participate. Pick a bad guy - heck Pick Three - and write for them. There are W&H guys (Which H and I are working with) there are Ministry Guys (Whom Adam, Lou and Kris have been itching to cut loose) and the whole BM.BL thing which Jamie and Matt want to explore. Shaun, i think, wants to write for Zayne, and John will be writing Alice (whch is kind of kewl being a hero/villain).
And anyone who wants to step into one of these NPCs shoes for a post or two will have a better idea of what is happeneing if we all understand what is driving this hairball of motivations.
Season Five: Black Hats
With all these Villain NPCs around I have just one question....who will write the PCs now?
hahah its a joke...
I think its hard sometimes when it gets complicated to explain things when you cant physically talk to someone and you have to always do it via messages on the board or on MSN. However after our 'Pay Per View' MSN discussion I think everything came together.
Correct me if im wrong but I think this is a very simplified version of the season:
W&H VS Ministry VS Zayn and her BHs VS WH
(not necessarily outright conflict but its the basic idea) everyone trying to do what they want with the Hell Mouth and doing what they can to undermine each other.
Now i know thats a super simplistic version, but I think thats what where we are all standing now and I think this fits everyone right? I know im cool with it!
Season Five: Black Hats
I was having a tough time scrolling through the Black Hat thread picking out the actual NPC write ups, so I have split them out into a new topic all to themselves. It's here.
The reason I was looking for each of them was that I was trying to work out which ones had already joined the Black Hats as part of their background write up, and which ones still needed to be recruited by Zayn. If they need recruiting, those posts will have to be written fairly soon so the Black Hats are all in place when the time comes for them to appear against the White Hats.
Season Five: Black Hats
One request I'd like to make: please try to keep Tanora's recruitment off-screen. I've been doing some thinking, and with some of the plans that I have, think that it's best (from an audience perspective, since we know we have readers out there) to have her at least not known to definately be a BH straight off the bat.
It'll probably be heavily implied, but... um... yeah... :)
Season Five: Black Hats
Okay, I've just done a quick audit of the Black Hats. So far we have eight (nine if you count Alice), which is a pretty good stable.
Alice is a PC, so she gets to be written by John, but now is probably a good time to remind everyone that NPCs are just that - NON player characters. That means that unless you give everyone a 'hands off' notice, anyone and everyone can write for those characters (like we did for the Brotherhood).
Also, only Orus so far has been recruited into the Black Hats, it seems. None of the write ups refer to having been already recruited, and Shaun has done a post detailing Orus' release and new contract. So if anyone's looking for something to write, pick one of the Black Hats and write their recruitment.
Of course, not all of those stories need to be told on-screen. In fact, it might get quite tedious if we go to the gameboard and find yet another instance of the cloaked figure convincing some bad guy to join her cause. I know Adam has indicated he wants Tanora to join off-screen.
Ok, general stream-of-consciousness burbling is slowing to a trickle now, so I'll go back to picking lint out of my belly button.
Season Five: Black Hats
Splitting the threads was a great idea--after readin' and re-readin', I look forward to contributing in some small way to all the NPCs (hopefully :))
I will be writing another post with Vespajan and Valor. I'm going to scale back a bit on the Order of Valor (at least on my part, and at last for the time being)--that should simplify things somewhat. At first I planned for his actual recruitment will also be off-screen, but...well...I just like writing for Zayn...
Season Five: Black Hats
Part of me is actually glad that the BM/BL storyline is getting pushed until later. I'm already trying to finish a post that I'm pretty sure I had started around a year ago as we speak. I've read some of the other Black Hat characters and they've turned out super (Kent's drawings are nifty). I've expressed before that I want to be a part of this storyline and I'm really trying to make time for it.
However, Chemistry/Spanish III/SATs/HSPAs will be the death of me this year :?
Season Five: Black Hats
I slipped in a Tanora post--succubi are surprisingly fun to write ;)
Hope no one minds with my blabber--the season's got me all excited
I need to lie down. I put this post here for some approval (since I know Tanora's role is a bit trickier) before moving it to the gameboard.
***
Tuesday, October 9 2007
12:25 AM - a roadside motel
As the headboard slammed against the wall the keys on the nightstand jingled and shifted position. The two writhing figures next to the stand didn't stop the keys from falling--they were more focused on other activities. The person on top reared back, lifting her head upwards, her red hair flying back behind her shoulders. The man lying willingly on the bottom was older than the woman, but not significantly. He clasped his hands onto the woman's sides as the headboard continued to slam against the motel room wall.
As the moment extended, the man's breathing proceeded from hearty exhaling grunts to painful gasps and wheezes. But the woman didn't stop. Her eyelids fluttered open, and beams of pale light danced through each iris and between her lashes. The man on the bottom groaned and growled for her to stop, but when he saw her face again he knew that she would not. Past the radiant demonic eyes he could see her face, her skin--the woman's true appearance--and he died shuddering, his eyes peeled wide open, staring in horror at his otherworldly companion. Shortly after the man ceased screaming, the woman's eyes closed slowly and she slid off of her victim. Sitting on the edge of the bed, Alaia Nahia stroked long orange strands of her hair. She sighed deeply, then exhaled. A little crackle of energy escaped her lips--remnants of the life she had stolen only seconds ago. Alaia sat in silence, thinking for a long moment before a satisfied smile crossed her lips.
"Mmm…" came a voice from a darkened corner. "I think I need a cigarette."
Alaia raised her face and her eyes darted to the corner. "Are you always watching?" she asked, more than a little annoyed.
"Only when it's really hot," the shadowy voice ribbed. "I try not to encroach…"
"I know." Alaia pulled the sheets from the half-dressed corpse behind her and wrapped them around her own naked body. "With all due respect, boss, this is supposed to be intimate."
"Murder always is, child." Alaia nodded. "So, what did he do to deserve such an enjoyable end?"
Alaia began to smile. "Nothing. If anything, he was the last person on Earth who deserved this fate." She slid her tongue gently across her lips.
"Oh?" the dark voice asked, suddenly intrigued.
"He was a youth minister when I met him," Alaia began. "So caring, and really sweet, too." She patted the corpse's leg in commendation. "And married. But I came around more often, and eventually he began to lie to his wife for me--for us. He'd skip work to be with me, and soon I was the only thing that mattered. He even neglected his church to be with me!" The demon laughed. "In the end, he'd steal for me. He would have killed for me."
"You destroyed him," the dark voice said blankly.
"No, no!" Alaia protested. "I got him to destroy himself. He shed his innocence and gave up his very soul," she added with a chuckle and a shrug. "Just for me."
"Truly the greatest love of all," the voice commented sharply.
"As far as vices go, don't knock corruption, boss. It gets the job done…"
The voice laughed. "I know about corruption, my dear. And you're so good at it. That's why I chose you…"
Alaia nodded congenially. "I know. And I am grateful. But, well…with this guy, I think I've pretty much drained the last good man in Los Angeles."
"No. There are others, if you know where to look." The voice took shape in the corner as a dark shadow, and soon the figure stepped into the pale moonlight that shone through the motel window. "If I teach you one thing, Tanora, let it be that there is no 'good man'. Men, and all humans for that matter, are inherently damnable and corrupt. Some just haven't realized it yet."
"You called me by my true name," Alaia noticed.
"It's what you are," the shadow said. "You took a human name to walk among them, but don't let that guise become who you are. You are not human--never lower yourself to their level."
The woman nodded. "Right." As Tanora rose from the bed and dressed herself in the other part of the motel room, her boss stood over the bed and body lying upon it.
"It's funny," the shadow began, "how quickly humans accept evil once you let them." The shadow's eyes narrowed and gazed into the deceased victim's. "I used to think that they were better than that," the master sighed.
"So when did you wise up?" Tanora asked as she hooked on her bra.
"I…I don't know."
Tanora slipped on her skirt. "Wow. You know boss, that's the first time I ever heard you utter those words."
"I mean, it is hard to pinpoint the moment I realized that humanity was undeserving of my care. Sometimes…sometimes I can see the future, but the past isn't always as clear. At some point it dawned on me, like a revelation."
"If you can see the future," Tanora laughed, "then shouldn't you have seen that revelation coming?"
"Shut up," the boss said.
Season Five: Black Hats
I guess that's a hint for me. I like it a bit, but... could ye set it a touch earlier? I know, I know, I have to write like crazy soon to catch up to y'all, but she was supposed to be the one following Nik at the end of the first post with him.
Season Five: Black Hats
Having said that, Shaun just reminded me of something... if it's possible, I'd like to perhaps keep the date similar, or perhaps make it earlier, but hold off posting and find a way to make it a flashback. Just as a way to make things more subtle there.
Season Five: Black Hats
Okay, cool. It'll be safe here until the time comes ;)
*puts padlock on Tanora*
Settle down, succubus!
Season Five: Black Hats
aw small question when are we all gonna get together and have all the black hats meet up :)