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Logan's picture

Hey everyone! So, soon we should be ready to get the gameboard up and running. Kaarin and I were tossing some ideas back and forth on what the overarching theme could be for the season. Here are some bullets we came up with.

1. Nothing apocalyptic since the season should be about getting to know the characters and major NPCs.

2. We were toying around with the following. Several major players in the NY underground have a shaky truce. Something/and or someone comes to NY which everyone wants to get their hands on and all hell breaks loose. Factions start warring and everyone is caught in the middle.

Anyways, we'd like to get feedback and everyone's imput before we open up the game.

As long as it's not the Cloch

Heather's picture

As long as it's not the Cloch Cosan again. :)

But yes, something like that would work. Some of us might be there looking for this thing - either to have it or to hide it from others - some of us may just live in the area, or be visiting for other reasons. Most of us will have characters that don't know each other, but given that this time we're not starting cold like we did with the start of LABN, some of us might create our characters in tandem.

What do we stay away from

Logan's picture

We definitely wouldnt want to repeat LABN Season 1. However, that being said, Ally and I weren't around for that, so could you tell us what to stay away from so it's not a carbon copy. Just the main points of it I guess

Ok, so: Shaun, Ally, and I

Kaarin's picture

Ok, so: Shaun, Ally, and I did some brainstorming last night for a way to do / structure this. Here's what we've come up with so far, with some of my own thoughts tossed in. First off, overall theme is likely character introduction, and to some extent, trying yo get control of our lives. Year wise, looking at 2016 to 2021.

Another thing that came up: the idea of using the `major players` less as a major force there, and more as a backdrop. They need not be developed beyond the most cursory level at this point, to avoid taking on too much. Think of it like Angel in the sense of, we're writing the viewpoint characters; we're not going to know the moves of everyone, or see it necessarily, unless and until it becomes important to the story to do so.

For the artifact: we brought up and mentioned, the Eye of St. Vigeous, on a smaller scale, found here: http://drupal.wildandbad.com/artifact/eye_of_st_vigeous - just thinking on some things. Power over the undead being a quite powerful thing. Think about it. The ability to bring a vampire back from dusting, without going to the trouble of the Revivification ritual that the Annoying One tried to do on the Master. Fuck of a way to ensure loyalty and control of your minions when you can add, "By the way, you won't really die. Ever."

If any of you ever watched

mrdave2176's picture

If any of you ever watched "Legend of the Seeker" the dead rsiing and having to feed off the living from the Eye of St Vigeous reminds me of the Banelings who were the dead come back to life but in order to maintain their undead existence they had to commit a murder each day.

Something like that would be interesting and draw lots of different kinds of people together, both supernatural and non-supernatural.

Using existing canon.

Heather's picture

One thing I'm curious about - how much existing canon will we be using? Buffy Season 8 comics, and the Angel and Spike comics, for instance, are being considered canon. Are we going to include the "LA went to hell" and "the world knows Slayers and vampires exist" in our game, or not?



Whats Canon

Logan's picture

We discussed and we're using the same Canon as LABN1 (so Buffyand Angel are long dead). Anything that happened in LABN 1 has happened in NYBN. Anything that happened in the real Buffy Canon post season 6 is not canon here.

The LABN continuity diverges

mrdave2176's picture

The LABN continuity diverges during Season 6.

  • During the closing of the Hellmouth Willow flubs the spell and while it gives all the potentials a brief boost when a slayer dies it doesn't make them all Slayers.  Consequently Buffy dies (but she closes the Hellmouth).
  • Angel loses it when Buffy dies and goes berserk and eats most of the staff of Wolfram and Hart.  They close the building and fry everyone inside but Angel escapes only to be staked by Tash a few years later.
  • No Slayer is found for 3 years (well there is one in Kenya but she isn't identified by the Council) and consequently the Council starts to work with their potentials more. One particular watcher (Abrose Delancre) is determined to insure that his potential becomes the Slayer and so he identifies all the other potentials in her "generation".
  • The Brotherhood bind their power to the Slayer bloodline when they turn a Slayer.
  • The Slayer dies in Kenya.
  • Delancre starts to kill Slayers in rapid succession.  Six of them die within a matter of weeks until the "proper" slayer is chosen.  This makes the brotherhood obscenely powerful.

  • The White Hats kill the oldest (and most powerful) of the brotherhood and in the process cleanse his bloodline (which amounts to nearly 1/8th of all the vampires in the world).  They break the Brotherhood's bond to the Slayer.

  • The White Hats have a showdown with Delancre, the Wathcers and several armies of Supernatural beings in the hills around LA and kill the slayer, Delancre, and most of the supernatural forces at work around the area.

Those were the world-reaching effects of LABN. Of the cast of Buffy and Angel only Lorne (in Las Vegas), Wesley and Gunn (Operating the Wyndham-Price & Gunn Agency in San Francisco), and Anya (still a demon in LA) survive.

Wolfram & Hart still operate in LA. The Watcher's Council still exist (barely) and they probably have a new Slayer.


Excellent recount, Dave.

Allyana's picture

Excellent recount, Dave.

Also, we have to decide upon

Allyana's picture

Also, we have to decide upon the events of Season 5. This is what I had written in Alessa's profile when we started LAbn2, after a lot of discussion with the rest of you:



Season Five Events

As for the rest of the White Hats, Season 5 was a decisive time for Alessa. After Tash’s death, the White Hats struggled to keep afloat, but it was difficult. Tash was dead, Kate was missing, Daye had completely detached herself from her friends, Alice was bitter about them dusting Tash, so she had rejected coming back to the group, and Cole was away at Sindell learning his craft. Darian, Galen, Kyle, Nikolai, a sporadic Reah and Alessa were all that was left of the White Hats. In those conditions, and after realizing that something new and dangerous was definitely happening in LA, they were extremely vulnerable to Zayn’Jae Vex.

Zayn'Jae Vex had once been a member of "the powers that be", but she had been stripped of her powers and cast out to Earth. That made her very angry, and set on the course of getting her power and position back.

In the months that followed, the White Hats struggled to fight in an LA that was increasingly dangerous, given a new Hellmouth was opening there. Apart from Zayn and her Black Hats, The Ministry of Magic, the Order of Valour, Wolfram & Hart and the Dalton Corporation were also players in the Season 5 arena, that finally proved too much for the White Hats to manage.

However, some good things happened in those times too. Kate appeared again, although with no memory of her life in LA, Cole came back to Los Angeles, and in January 2008, Alessa and Ellis married – much in the fashion of Kate and Galen – after an impulsive elopement. Their happiness didn’t last long, though, since events were down falling too quickly.

At the end of the Season 5, the White Hats fought a battle that they couldn’t really win. Much was lost in it, too much according to any standards. Ellis, Darian and Reah were killed, along with many more; Kate and Galen got lost in the chaos of battle, and nothing was heard of them since. At the end, the only living warriors were Nikolai, Kyle, Cole and Alessa, and they were left heartbroken, disappointed and bitter.


Season 5 - thoughts

Logan's picture

The only thing I think we should change is not specifying who died in season 5 and who didnt. Like this it gives us a chance to decide in lieu of NYBN. We should just say Season 5 ended with Zayn being foiled and the Black Hats being dispersed.


I don't know that it is

mrdave2176's picture

I don't know that it is important.  I tried to recount things that someone living in New York might have seen or know if they were in touch with the supernatural community.  The rest of it isn't really important that we specify, I don't think.


Logan's picture

To your point, which is why I said dont specifically call out what happened, just that the villain was defeated in LA and life went on. I would avoid detailing out this person died and this person died, etc. :)

Sure, no problem. I'm

Allyana's picture

Sure, no problem. I'm planning to use Alessa from time to time, but for that I have just to decide what happened to Ellis (i think i'll keep him dead, not sure now)

Throwing out the first "Ball"

mrdave2176's picture

Soneone mean but not apocolyptic.  Say some drug-lord or ganster gets killed in the middle of a bust.  The problem is, that he sold his soul to a demon to get some chica to fall for him (she'd have done it anyway, but that's not the point).

The demon, now with this soul decides he is going to wreak some real havok and so he turns this chucklehead loose on New York with a mission.  Kill a person every day and you can't die.   As long as he kills and keeps killing he can't be killed.  Now this guy isn't such a tough customer, but the problem is that his victims go straight to the demon.

And the demon offers them all the same deal:  Kill someone every day and you won't die.  If they take the deal their body hops right up again restored like new.

Pretty soon there are dozens of people killing, and then hundreds and so on.

There are ways to stop them.

  1. Burn the body.  No body means they have nothing to come back to.
  2. Incapacitate them before they've killed until sunrise the next day then they crumble to ash.
  3. Maim them so they can't kill. They will continue to live with horrific injuries (like their head has been removed or their arms and legs hacked off) until the deadline has passed.  That was the deal the demon made.  Of course they feel all the pain.

Stop the demon.  This of course means dying and facing him.  Remembering also that you are in his realm on his turf and you have no backup.

However, the Eye might offer an alternative.  With the Eye you could either:

  1. Open a rift to the demon's dimension or
  2. Bring yourself back after confronting the demon
  3. and there might be another option...

The season involves tracking down these "Banelings"(for lack of a better term) in NYC. 

Just some numbers for you..assuming these aren't motivated thugs and they only kill the minimum number of people required:

Day 1: 1 Baneling
Day 2: 2 Banelings
Day 3: 4 Banelings
Day 4: 8 Banelings
Day 5: 16 Banelings
Day 6: 32 Banelings
Day 7: 64 Banelings
Day 8: 128 Banelings
Day 9: 64 Banelings
Day 10: 128 Banelings
Day 11: 256 Banelings
Day 12: 512 Banelings

And it gets real ugly after that.  Even if you assume that a lot of them will get nabbed pretty quick or that a few will be babies or children too small to do anything too harmful in time to create more this is still a MINIMUM scenario.

It'll seem to the mundanes that some sort of 'gang war" has broken out.  The police department will be dealing with it like that.  BUt that is still nearly 1000 Banelings in only 2 weeks.  Assuming that the PCs get involved after a few days (say day 4 or 5) when the numbers are small then this is a very containable threat and the sort of thing that can lead us all over the city.


Banelings - me like

Logan's picture

I for one really like Dave's idea. It's unique, and offers quite a bit of villains to deal with. Plus, it affects everyone in the city, good or bad. I'm sure even the badguys would want to deal with this quickly as it's causing unwanted chaos on their turf.

The Eye, like Dave said could offer alot of possibilities. Maybe have the power to stop ressurection OR resurrect someone who died to go fight the demon (or resurrect the demon into the mortal realm to be dealt with there).

What do you all think?

I actually like this a great

Kaarin's picture

I actually like this a great deal - it's something that'll give us ways to eventually get everyone together, and should honestly give even some of the more evil elements of the city pause for concern, and do like the idea of certainly not starting with saving the world. While we probably will do that at some point, keeping the first major bad more local won't overwhelm us.

The one worry I might have with this: it's possible for it to get way too out of hand, too quickly. Assuming everyone does exactly what they need to, and everyone accepts the demonic offer, it does get really ugly really quick. There are a couple of factors that I think lead to this being not necessarily a minimum number:

(1) Not everyone will accept the demon's offer; while some will,I think most (non-horrible) people are inclined to say no or at least be skeptical. Even if they do, a lot will balk at taking another human life intentionally. (2) As Dave mentioned, accidents. So we can scale this to fit the needs of the story; but there's certainly going to be a nice core looking like gang wars, and serial killers.

Yes, I like it too. Although

Allyana's picture

Yes, I like it too. Although I too find the geometrical progression of killings a little too fast. Hopefully, some people won't agree to kill innocent people to stay alive. There are some decent people out there, aren't there? :P


Actually I think it could

mrdave2176's picture

Actually I think it could proceed faster than that depending on who gets killed.  I suspect it will go faster intitally since "Baneling Zero" will probably kill a bunch of bad buys he hates right off the bat.  And they are likely to be reprehensible human beings.  After that as more and more "innocents" get killed they will kill people like crack addicts and hobos who won't do anything or will just drink themselves into a stupor and then disintegrate.

So the pace will slow down some but it will still remain a pretty steep curve.  The idea is that we can't fart around on this.  Once we know what is going on (through divinination, or tarot cards or tea leaves or just seeing some of these dead guys come back to life) then we will have to start getting them off the street in a hurry.

As long as we can keep the total number manageable we will be good.  Three dozen or less is manageable.  Twice that and it gets harder to control.  Worst case scenario is that it spreads out of Manhattan. I forsee the story flow being something like this:

Part 1: We talk about / find out about guys coming back to life.

Part 2: We establish a pattern of how banelings works (either Lore or by observation of facts)

Part 3: We realize the scale and mobilize some sort of large-scale perimeter. (The NYPD would be useful here - Hint hint)

Part 4: We hit a plateau that is sustainable for a short (say a few days) period of time.

Part 5: We look for a way to stop the problem at the heart (the macguffin)

Part 6: We locate the macguffin.

Part 7: We use the macguffin in some unspecified way to confront the demon.

part 8: We defeat/ bargain with / stalemate the demon in  a way that stops the banelings.

part 9: We go home (through the macguffin or other phlebotenum)

Part 10: Epilogue/Aftermath


Just FYI:  Banelings (if you

mrdave2176's picture

Just FYI:  Banelings (if you followed the link) come from the show Legend of the Seeker.  If you didn't watch the show this is sort of an overview:

There are basically two gods.  A Dark one and a Light one.  The Light god was a god of order, birth, renewal, healing and law.  The Dark one a god of death, chaos, sorcery, decay and anarchy. 

Not so much "good" and "evil" as opposites.  Most people acknowledged that the Keeper (the Dark god) had dominion over death but that wasn't necessarily a bad thing.  Everyone went to the Keeper eventually.

But the Keeper wanted dominon over the world and so he opened rifts into the world through whitch it became possible for spirits to travel back and forth.  The rifts where opened when a powerful artifact was destroyed.  These rifts allowed the Keeper to raise the dead.  In doing so, they became Banelings. 

Banelings were indistinguishable from humans unless they were close to forfeiting on the pact with the Keeper in which case they would show open sores or dark patches on their skin.  Unless they killed someone every day then they would die.

In the show Banelings could be killed again, but the Keeper could be persuaded to bring them back again (especially if they had sent many souls to him).  Those they killed wouldn't neccesarily be given the offer to come back as a Baneling but many were...especially those with a sadistic or viscious bent.

The rifts allowed someone from the world to enter the spirit realm physically but to do so meant to give yourself over to the domain of the Keeper. It also meant that spirits could potentially escape (and they did, in the show).

At least one major character became a baneling but was "cured" and continued to live.  One of the major characters died (twice!) and was brought back through other means.  And one of the characters entered the spirit realms several times through rifts and lived to tell the tale.

It was a pretty good show the I really enjoyed watching.  It had some "cheese" to it, but it generally had some good stories and I enjoyed the actors and actresses in the show a lot.  I recommend it as a source for inspiration.

And so...just to be clear...I didn't create banelings.  I am borrowing the concept and am using the term for now.  But we MIGHT want to come up with a new (or similar) term to use for our story.

With terminology aside,

Kaarin's picture

With terminology aside, baneling actually works as a term. Or it could be based on the name of a demon; with that in mind, possible demon names: Ayperos (Prince who commands 36 Legions in Christian lore), Deumos (female demon, 4 horns and a crown in appearance), Naberius (a Marquis of Hell), Nergal (drawn as a demon name, and a Mesopotamian god of the underworld), Sonnelion (Demon of Hatred), or Zagan (reportedly a decietful demon king who commands 36 legions).

Still same worries

Allyana's picture


I’m still worried about the same point: if we go by this baneling plot -which I really like- it's too quick. I wasn’t around when LAbn started, and to be honest, I never read the first season -I know, me bad- so I don’t know if you introduced the big bad just from the beginning or you gave characters a little time to meet and so. 

Both Dave’s and Kaa’s ideas of how the story should go, require some sort of organization, if we were talking LAbn, with chars already organized in the White Hats, I’d love that idea, but I don’t get how this will work in the new game.

Unless of course, we delay the appearance of these banelings a little, and give people the opportunity to meet, recognize other warriors, get to trust each other … 

By Raise of Hand

Logan's picture


Seems like things are fleshing out. So things stay on course, is everyone good moving forward with the Baneling story idea? If so, Dave, do you want to create the demon and initial post?

Are we still going to work in the Eye also?

Just some thoughts....

Kaarin's picture

The Eye or similar is an interesting MacGuffin. The consideration for that, though, is pretty much the same overall consideration of how to solve it. A broad outline: (1) Encounter Baneling in such a way that we go Well, that's not supposed to happen. (2) Figure out what it is and how it's created (3) Determine what is needed to confront the demon (4) Gather supplies (5) Confront.

I include (4) because whether the Eye or a ritual, either way, we also have to find the materials needed. And in the case of the Eye, not only discover what it is, but find a way to use the blasted thing. All of which is doable.

Personally, the Eye is nice because, depending on what exactly it does, it offers an overall temptation to use it not only lthis one time, but to keep using it. After all, a cop or hunter with the Eye (unless there's a revivifciation limit) no longer needs to worry about his comrades dying while saving lives. A hero can make the ultimate sacrifice twice. Less scrupulous people have a Sixth Day device, which they can use to bring successfull and valued minions back from the dead, repeatedly, as a reward for their loyal service. And it's not like it'd be bad to use it to bring back your buddy on the force, would it?

The Eye is nice because of that; it raises a real "now what do we do with it" question in a way that a doorway or spell does not. On the other hand, a doorway lets us sidestep that, pat ourselves on the back, and congratulate each other on a job well done.

The Eye and Some possible

mrdave2176's picture

The Eye and Some possible reasons NOT to use it:

  • It might not use the person's original soul to revive him/her.
  • It might not restore the person's soul (just reanimates him/her).
  • It might condemn someone else to die in their place.
  • It might shorten the user's life...
  • or burden their soul.
  • It might bind the user/the recipient to the eye (meaning that they are the only ones who can use it)
  • It might obligate the user/recipient in some way (a secondary bargain).
  • It might have "side-effects" such as:

    • nightmares,
    • loss of memory,
    • dark moods,
    • suicidal tendancies (if death isn't a deterrant, then what is?)
  • while death can be deferred it can't be defeated (no, it really can't).  So it might casue some sort of "hazard effect" (think "Final Destination" movie)

Before I forget, again, this

Kaarin's picture

Before I forget, again, this does inspire a possible thought, if we use it, both on the Eye and on its actual properties. Here's the idea, incorporating several:

The Eye is required to bind itself to the soul of a particular person - that person becomes able to direct the power of the eye, and be revived by it. Now the catch comes in: because of the way that it works, the soul requires another soul to "anchor" it. The soul it requires could be another one specifically bound to it, or it could be a local one, chosen at random; either way, it does mean that when using it to revive somene, you are condemning someone to die in your place... and very potentially, knowing exactly who that person is. Side effects from that could readily be nightmares, visions of the other person's death after, and things like that.

Same worries II

Soulless Zombie's picture

I’m still worried about the same point: if we go by this baneling plot -which I really like- it's too quick. I wasn’t around when LAbn started, and to be honest, I never read the first season -I know, me bad- so I don’t know if you introduced the big bad just from the beginning or you gave characters a little time to meet and so. Both Dave’s and Kaa’s ideas of how the story should go, require some sort of organization, if we were talking LAbn, with chars already organized in the White Hats, I’d love that idea, but I don’t get how this will work in the new game. Unless of course, we delay the appearance of these banelings a little, and give people the opportunity to meet, recognize other warriors, get to trust each other … I'm posting this again, since i don't know if you actually saw it. Btw, i sign in and I don't appear as connected, even if my name is in 'online users'... any ideas how to solve that?

I'm posting this again, since

Allyana's picture

I'm posting this again, since I don't think anybody saw it the first time... 



I’m still worried about the same point: if we go by this baneling plot -which I really like- it's too quick. I wasn’t around when LAbn started, and to be honest, I never read the first season -I know, me bad- so I don’t know if you introduced the big bad just from the beginning or you gave characters a little time to meet and so. 

Both Dave’s and Kaa’s ideas of how the story should go, require some sort of organization, if we were talking LAbn, with chars already organized in the White Hats, I’d love that idea, but I don’t get how this will work in the new game.

Unless of course, we delay the appearance of these banelings a little, and give people the opportunity to meet, recognize other warriors, get to trust each other … 


Logan's picture

Well, because the Banelings are just humans, I think it's a good 'villain' since the characters dont know each other. Think, if there was 1 big powerful villain, the characters dont stand a chance since no one knows each other yet. But, because there are alot of little villains, it's easier for everyone to deal with them on an individual basis.


Yes, they are easier to deal

Allyana's picture

Yes, they are easier to deal with (more or less), but they are too many!!! Imagine, by day 12 there will be 512 people killing people (or a lilttle less, since by then some of they would have been killed by our guys), day 13 1024 (if my math is correct) and so on... by the time they got to know each other, discover the demon, think of a solution, organize themselves and fight it, how many banelings will we have?

true but

Logan's picture

True, but since they are easy to deal with, I would assume different people would begin dealing with them before even meeting each other. Some other power players in NY may even be actively working to destroy them. We can work into the story that some people 'off camera' actively hunted down the banelings, which keeps the quantity somewhat manageable.

The easiest way that I can

Kaarin's picture

The easiest way that I can think of to edit the time frame is by having it be, say, "Dawn of the third day" to kill someone. You still have an early initial burst. But it does increase the time by rougly....

Day 3: 2
Day 6: 4
Day 9: 8
Day 12: 16
Day 15: 32
Day 18: 64
Day 21: 128
That's just a sample. It assumes that everyone kills exactly one person, that that person is capable of killing another, that they do kill another, and the victim takes the deal. I do think this is managable and need not necessarily go quick. I'm also skeptical that the numbers are what would actually happen - there would be a decent number, surely, but not everyone will take the deal and keep killing. Most people, I suspect, even if they took the deal, and weren't already a sociopath, would either write it off as a hallucination, or not be able to go through with it.

3 days is good

Logan's picture

By doing 3 days, it really gives more time. Plus, like Kaarin said, how many people would agree. I know if I died and was told I could be revived by killing someone, I wouldnt take it. Most normal people I dont think would either.

I like that solution, a

Allyana's picture

I like that solution, a little more time between murders will slow it down. Also, you are right, Dave, we won't be the only ones killing banelings so the number won't be so high. Between the slowing it down, the fact that not everybody will make the deal, and the other hunters, or whatever, that will be killing banelings too, I think it will work. 

 The more interesting thing will be to deal with the demon itself, actually, not so much killing banelings, I'm looking forward to that smiley

That might be actually closer

mrdave2176's picture

That might be actually closer to the real total.  It is still a murder spree.  It assumes that after 3 days that three murders have occurred for each baneling but only ONE of those murdered has taken the deal.

So the chart looks like this:

Day         Banelings             Murders (includes the banelings)
Day 3:    2                  8
Day 6:    4                 16
Day 9:    8                 32
Day 12:  16                 64
Day 15:  32                128
Day 18:  64                256
Day 21: 128                512

Just for perspective this is the murder numbers in Manhattan for 2000-2009 (the entire year!)

2000 673
2001 649
2002 587
2003 597
2004 570
2005 539
2006 596
2007 594
2008 522
2009 563


They don't have to start right away

Heather's picture

It's possible that the first Baneling doesn't show up until several days into game time, or even longer if necessary, to establish some initial meetings first. However, with so few Banelings (or Revenants, if we're looking for an alternate name) in the first few days, it won't get out of hand for a while. And having two characters interact over one particular Baneling/Revenant would be a good way to have them meet.


Logan's picture


So I was just thinking, do we have a timeline for season 1 (real life time). Like is there something we should strive to hit? Like done by March for example? Do people think we should have something to work towards or just keep it going? If we DO think there should be a timeline, what do people think it should be?

I think that's is a good idea

Evalyn Toussaint's picture

I think that's is a good idea too, so we know what to strive for week to week. At least for myself, it'll be very helpful :)

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